[rc5] New Cyberian team!

Colin L. Hildinger colin at ionet.net
Sat Aug 9 12:36:25 EDT 1997

Evan don't be dipshit.  Argue facts but don't spew tripe.

On Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:48:36 -0400 (EDT), Evan Vetere wrote:

>> The cyberian effort, a competiting effort with Bovine that has
>>  - proactive developers
>Says Merriam-Webster
>Main Entry: pro ac tive
>Pronunciation: (")prO-'ak-tiv
>Function: adjective
>Date: 1933
>1 [1pro-] : relating to, caused by, or being interference between previous learning and the recall or performance of later
>learning <proactive inhibition of memory>
>2 [2pro- + reactive] : acting in anticipation of future problems, needs, or changes 
>So, your developers are proactive, eh?
>I'll assume you use the latter definition. 

Proactive meaning that they try and anticipate possible problems and
fix them before they're an issue.  They are doing things along this
line.  In anticipation of future problems with their detailed stats
they're in the process of rewriting their engine to be able to handle a
much larger load.  They're about half way through the first rewrite and
already have a plan of what they're going to do after that (they
discussed doing it all at once but decided it would take too long to
get it done and didn't want there to be any possibility of their stats
going down in the meantime).  

>Your developers anticipated the Bovine project, did they? And they 'reacted' by starting the Cyberian effort to hop along behind ours like some estranged puppy dog?

Not worth responding to.

>No. Rather, your developers are too blind to see that they have 1/10th the chance of getting the key compared to Bovine, and yet they're still too stubborn to do anything about it. Doesnt seem very proactive to me. 

1/10?  I think it looks more like about 1/5 at this point.  We're doing
2.4Gkey/s at the time of this writing, and they're doing around .45
Gkey/s average from my observations over the last several days
(remember that their stats list keyrate over the last 30 minutes, so it
fluctuates constantly).

>I think 'anticipating future problems, needs, or changes' applies quite well to our coders, however.

Probably true.  My observations are that it applies to both groups.

>Duncan is designing a client that can switch seamlessly between tasks such as RC5 and Mersenne Primes, preventing the loss of any speed when we do find the key. That sounds pretty dern proactive toe. 

The mysterious v3 client.  Can't wait to see it.

>Bovine and a few others are designing a stats network - and have been since before DesCHALL died - that can handle the imense load of a distributed computing network larger than any physical computer in existence -before- it exists. So when we do grow to teraflop size, if ever, we'll be ready. Also proactive. 

It would be nice if they could design a stats network that could handle
the current stats...

>These are only our two main developers. They both embody proactive. 
>I look forward to seeing examples of such behavior from cyberian - though not on this mailing list, please. This is a Bovine list. 

I agree, but PLEASE don't be a complete asshole when you want to shut
people up.  State the facts, and if they aren't enough, too bad.

My gosh it seems people here are bitter because another group DARED to
start up.  All I ever see are insults being hurled.  During
DESCHALL/Solnet we were very competitive, but never as nasty as you
people are being.  One of the Solnet clients was actually ported by one
of the DESCHALL team members just because they didn't have a client for
his platform of choice!  Competition was the fire that drove the dev
teams to build faster, better clients, better stats, etc.  Competition
was the fire to recruit as many people as possible.  I say, choose
whichever group you want for your own reasons and ignore these bitter,
hateful posts to the list.  The FACTS right now are:

*Bovine has faster x86 clients on all x86 machines except the PPro/PII
machines, where Cyberian is about 10% faster.

*Cyberian doesn't have Mac clients right now.

*Bovine is going about 5 times faster than Cyberian, but this has
nothing to do with your chance of finding the key at Cyberian.  Your
chance is strictly determined by the speed of the client on your
computer and the margin between the two groups on keyspace checked.

*About 5-6% of the keys being checked by Cyberian have already been
checked by Bovine, 1.2% of the keys being checked by Bovine have been
checked by Cyberian.  The number isn't 10+% as for keys being rechecked
by Cyberian, no matter what has been posted to this list before. 
Reason?  Bovine checked their first 5-6% sequentially starting near the
beginning.  Cyberian is checking the last 80% of the keyspace first,
then the first 20%.  This isn't cheating, it's smart, and it was
Bovine's mistake to do it sequentially to begin with, plain and simple.
 Therefore when you're calculating the margins remember that the first
5-6% of the keys checked by Bovine are irrelevent to Cyberian right

Now, this said, I say do whatever YOU want to do, and do it for logical
reasons.  If you're staying with Bovine do it because you like where
the money's going.  Do it because the client's faster on your machine. 
Do it because you like Nugget, Duncan, BovineOne, etc.  Do it because
you started with Bovine and switching is a hassle.  If you switch, do
it because you personally want more money.  Do it because Cyberian's
client is faster on your machine.  Do it because you like the guys at
Cyberian (they're pretty nice guys themselves from what I can tell). 
Do it because they have working stats.  Do it because you want to
trigger a little action on the part of the Bovine team.  IOW -- do
whatever you do for your OWN reason's, not Evan Vetere's (unless of
course you're Evan Vetere <g>).

Colin L. Hildinger
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