Pirating (Useless. Was: [RC5] Win32: feature cree

Eric Gindrup gindrup at okway.okstate.edu
Wed Nov 26 13:47:36 EST 1997

     What you get in return is the ability to enforce requirements of 
     fitness and merchantability.  Despite all the twiddly writing all over 
     software license agreements, software developers are required (in manu 
     US states and Federally) to provide fitness and merchantability.  
     There have been a few cases on this point recently and the software 
     developers have been losing more than winning.
     The other thing you get is the ability to believe that your payment 
     for goods and services will actually result in the provision of those 
     goods and services.  You don't sign a contract with the wait staff of 
     a fast-food restaurant.  This does not mean that they are not required 
     to provide the food that you pay for just because of some "two bit 
     'social contract'".  If you'd prefer that they take your money and 
     provide nothing in return, then your claims in favor of piracy are 
     Further, you should care about "software as a whole" because it 
     includes companies like Forte, which you mention.  Would you prefer 
     that everyone use pirated copies of Agent so that Forte would go out 
     of business and your only alternative was crappy "big name" commercial 
     software?  This is my argument, as you quote.  It would appear, from 
     yourresponse, that piracy is fine with you as long as it only happens 
     to the other guy.
     Last on this, you seem to be confused about the difference between not 
     choosing to trade for a product and choosing to receive a product 
     without paying for it.  That you did not purchase Word is a case of 
     the former.  If you were to nevertheless possess it would be a case of 
     the latter.  If you possessed an unpurchased copy of Word, then you 
     would be a pirate and would have eroded the income of Microsoft 
     associated with the Word product.  That you have neither purchased the 
     product nor possess the product indicates that you are fuzzy on this 
     Finally, you appear to be confused about the meaning of the word 
     piracy.  If you do not possess pirated software, then it would be 
     difficult to say that you are engaging in software piracy.  Your 
     assumption that my statements regarding software piracy apply to you 
     in instances where no piracy have occurred weaken the prima facia 
     nature of your statements.  My reasoning, as you put it, is that the 
     promotion of widespread piracy through faulty logic and 
     rationalization costs software developers millions of dollars, and 
     this is verifiable.
            -- Eric Gindrup ! gindrup at okway.okstate.edu

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Pirating (Useless. Was: [RC5] Win32: feature cree
Author:  <rc5 at llamas.net > at SMTP
Date:    1997/11/26 06:47

On Mon, 24 Nov 97 12:31:01 -0600, gindrup at okway.okstate.edu wrote:
>     Some person stated that a software company only loses income from 
>     pirating if the pirate would have bought the software.  It is evident 
>     that a person is willing to take the means of least cost to acquire 
>     something tht they want, especially if they are pirating.  The fact 
>     that they are willfully violating social contract indicates that they 
>     want the software.
I said it. I am not responsible for every two bit "social contract" 
that someone proposes. If this were a contract, what do I get in 
return for my enforcement of it? The software industry lies about its 
loses, why should I care about the software as a whole?
I support honest software writers who sell their software at a 
reasonable price, for example Forté, which writes Agent. They also 
write a free program that shows quite well what Agent is like. Both 
are good programs and I have paid for my copy of Agent.
By your reasoning, I have cost every software writer millions of 
dollars because I have not paid for it.
  The fact that they are willing to risk prosecution 
>     and imprisonment indicates that they want the software rather badly.
Sue me.
>     Thus, the claim that the software company loses no income is based on 
>     the fallacious argument that the perceived cost of piracy is the same 
>     as the perceived cost of purchase.
I have not paid for Word for Windows, sue me. Oh, by the way, did I 
mention I neither have it nor use it?
>     Thus, these persons are causing the following costs:
>     All other persons who purchase the software legitimately must pay more 
>     for software because the unit income of software is reduced by piracy. 
I am diving up the price of software because I have not paid for Word? 
Sue me.
>     Similarly, good shareware or free software is killed by the difficulty 
>     of overcoming this income depletor.
I have not paid for Word, therefore I have depleted Word of income.
  The society at large must waste 
>     "anxiety" over these miscreants and violators of law.  And finally, 
>     the taxpayes have to give more to the government to seek out and 
>     prosecute these offenders.  Since these crimes are so information 
>     oriented, the cost of prosecution and investigation is very high.
Sue me.
>     Thanks.  I *wanted* higher taxes.  And to think, pirates cause all 
>     this wasted utility because of the claim that it is more efficient to 
>     pirate than to purchase.
It is your fault that I hit myself in the head with a 2 x 4 and get 
>     Thanks.  I really appreciate all you've done to decrease the quality 
>     of my life.  Perhaps while you're at it, you could steal my car and 
>     kill my family.  I was kind of used to having quality implementations 
>     of them.
If I agree to your request that makes a contract and you are legally 
required to obey it.
PGP encrypt your email to me
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